Discussion:
Boeing's Starliner capsule just landed with no crew aboard. What's next
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a425couple
2024-09-09 20:57:11 UTC
Permalink
Some think Boeing will just give up on it!

from
https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-next-iss-mission-nasa-plan

Boeing's Starliner capsule just landed with no crew aboard. What's next
for this astronaut taxi?
News
By Elizabeth Howell published 2 days ago
It's too soon to tell when Starliner will fly again.

Comments (8)
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black and white photo of a space capsule descending through the sky
under three parachutes
Boeing's Starliner capsule descends through Earth's atmosphere on Sept.
7, 2024, heading for the touchdown that ended its Crew Flight Test
mission. (Image credit: NASA)
Boeing's Starliner capsule just returned to Earth without astronauts,
marking the beginning of a new set of investigations by NASA.

Starliner left the International Space Station (ISS) on Friday evening
(Sept. 6), then aced a landing in New Mexico just after midnight on
Saturday (Sept. 7). The touchdown brought an end to Crew Flight Test
(CFT), Starliner's first-ever astronaut mission. But no astronauts came
down with the capsule on Saturday; Starliner experienced problems with
its reaction control system (RCS) thrusters shortly after CFT's June 5
liftoff, and NASA decided not to risk putting Williams and Wilmore
aboard the capsule again.

The duo have a solid homecoming plan: They'll ride back to Earth in
February 2025 aboard a SpaceX Crew Dragon capsule — the one that will
fly the company's Crew-9 mission, which is set to launch toward the ISS
on Sept. 24. But what's next for the Starliner program is a bigger question.

NASA tasked SpaceX and Boeing in 2014 with sending astronauts to and
from the ISS. SpaceX, borrowing knowledge from its Cargo Dragon
spacecraft, flew a Crew Dragon test mission to the station in 2019
without astronauts and passed all metrics, allowing the company to
launch its debut astronaut test flight the following year. That effort
was successful, and SpaceX quickly moved to operational, long-duration
astronaut missions to the ISS for NASA. It's in the middle of its eighth
such flight and is gearing up for the ninth (Crew-9).

Related: NASA astronauts can't wear Boeing Starliner spacesuits in
SpaceX's Dragon. Here's why

Starliner, a new design, has required quite a few adjustments. Its first
mission, an uncrewed test flight in December 2019, failed to reach the
ISS due to software glitches. The capsule succeeded on its second ISS
try in May 2022 but experienced a few issues with its propulsion system
during that flight.

CFT has had hiccups as well — namely, helium leaks and the thruster
issues. (Five of Starliner's 28 RCS thrusters failed as it chased the
ISS down shortly after launch.) The mission was supposed to last just 10
days or so, but NASA kept Starliner at the ISS for three months as it
analyzed the thruster problems and what to do about them.

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Those issues appear to be linked to overheating — a result, perhaps,
both of the frequency of thruster use and their placement inside
heat-retaining shelters on the outside of the spacecraft known as
"doghouses." Bulging seals and insulation shedding appear to restrict
the flow of propellant to the RCS thrusters.

NASA and Boeing had hoped that CFT would pave the way for Starliner's
first operational crewed flight. That mission, known as Starliner-1, is
tentatively targeted for August 2025. But it's too soon to tell if
Starliner will hit that timeline.

"I think we'll see where we're at in another month or so, and have a
little bit better idea of what the overall schedule will be," Steve
Stich, manager of NASA's Commercial Crew Program, said during a
post-landing press conference on Saturday morning.

That schedule could even include another test flight before Starliner is
certified for operational astronaut missions.

"I would say it's probably too early to think about exactly what the
next flight looks like. I think we want to take the next step to go look
at all the data," Stich said.

"We've got some things we know we've got to go work on," he added. "And
we'll go do that and fix those things, and then go fly when we're ready."

A white and black Boeing Starliner space capsule is seen docked at the
International Space Station through a station window with the Earth below.

Boeing Starliner docked at the International Space Station during Crew
Flight Test in 2024. (Image credit: NASA)
Much of this work will focus on the RCS thruster overheating issue and
how to mitigate it.

"What we need to do now is go take a thruster at White Sands [Test
Facility in New Mexico] and make sure we understand the exact pulse
sequences that cause the heating," Stich said. "And then, at the same
time, in parallel, look at software changes to reduce the number of
demands on the thrusters."

Teams will also investigate removing or altering the thermal blankets
inside the doghouses, to help keep the thrusters cooler, he added.

"So it's really three different thrusts, I would say," Stich said.

RELATED STORIES:
— 'There was some tension in the room', NASA says of decision to bring
Boeing's Starliner spacecraft home without astronauts

— SpaceX's Crew-9 astronaut launch delayed to Sept. 24 due to Boeing
Starliner issues

— How 2 fatal shuttle disasters weighed on NASA's decision to bring
Boeing Starliner astronauts home on SpaceX Dragon

But there were plenty of positives to take from CFT, Stich stressed.
Starliner performed very well during its entry, descent and landing
today, he said, describing the touchdown in White Sands Space Harbor as
a "bullseye." And he estimated that, despite Starliner's issues, Boeing
was able to notch 85% to 90% of CFT's mission objectives.

Joel Montalbano, deputy associate administrator for NASA's Space
Operations Mission Directorate, also emphasized the positives, and
sought to put CFT into the proper perspective.

"It's important to remember: This was a test mission, right?" Montalbano
said during the post-landing press conference. "We learned from this
mission."

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Elizabeth Howell
Elizabeth Howell
a425couple
2024-09-09 21:00:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Some think Boeing will just give up on it!
from
https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-next-iss-mission-nasa-plan
Boeing's Starliner capsule just landed with no crew aboard. What's next
for this astronaut taxi?
News
By Elizabeth Howell published 2 days ago
It's too soon to tell when Starliner will fly again.
 Comments (8)
the comments included
8 Comments
Comment from the forums
steve_foston
It is sensible that NASA have more than 1 way for the USA to get there
and back to the ISS so I wish Starliner well for the future. However is
it sensible that the spacesuits for both vehicles are incompatible
surely this needs sorting out - its like the air filters on A13 were a
makeshift device allowed a square peg to go into a round hole surely we
should have learnt something from this
Reply
Unclear Engineer
Glad to see it made the return flight without any more problems.

Hopefully, Boeing will stick with this project and make the capsule work
reliably without having to "baby" the thrusters. Having tight limits on
thruster use that are OK when everything else works as planned does not
sound like a prudent policy, because there might not be enough margin to
handle the thruster needs when something else is not going right.

Considering that the capsule had thruster problems on its last 2 flights
and NASA was unwilling to bet the crew's lives on the capsule for this
reentry, it seems logical that Boeing is going to need to do another
uncrewed flight to show that it has fixed the thruster problem
sufficiently to warrant certifying it for crew.
Reply
trailrider
If I understand correctly, one objective in creation of both crew and
cargo spacecraft is reusability. Also, being able to check over major
systems postflight is smart. How, then does Boeing justify a design like
Starlink that discards a major portion of its RCS after a single flight?

It is probably too late in the game for Boeing to do a redesign of
Starlink, but perhaps some other company would be willing to come up
with a spacecraft to back up Dragon, perhaps in conjunction with some
commercial space station when ISS is deorbited. Also, there definitely
should be compatability between space suits.
Reply
Unclear Engineer
Trailrider,

First, Boeing's capsule is "StarLiner" and this one was named "Calypso".
" StarLink" is the SpaceX communication satellites.

SpaceX's Dragon capsule also has a "service module" between the Falcon 9
booster and the Dragon capsule, which gets burned-up and not reused.
When Sierra Space gets it DreamChaser capsule going, it will have a
similar small service module that will not be reused.

The huge SpaceX "StarShip" and its "SuperHeavy" first stage will be the
first (nearly) totally reusable system, with both stages being able to
reenter and be reused without an intermediate service module.

The service modules for the current crop of capsules are designed to be
the least expensive parts.
Reply
R Kym Horsell
2024-09-10 00:31:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Some think Boeing will just give up on it!
from
https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-next-iss-mission-nasa-plan
...

The next headline prob gives a hint.

[Its Allays Da Custumers Folt!]
Boeing Execs Snub NASA at News Conference After Starliner Landing
Futurism, 09 Sep 2024 15:43Z
Jim Wilkins
2024-09-10 01:37:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Some think Boeing will just give up on it!
from
https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-next-iss-mission-nasa-plan
...

The next headline prob gives a hint.

[Its Allays Da Custumers Folt!]
Boeing Execs Snub NASA at News Conference After Starliner Landing
Futurism, 09 Sep 2024 15:43Z

---------------------------------
I've noticed that non-technical management tends to be nervous and defensive
in a high tech organization. However good their educational credentials may
be they can't presume intellectual superiority over the scientists or
engineers.

Being a lowly lab tech at Mitre I didn't talk to the politicians, but as a
New Hampshire voter I do get the chance to quiz them in person. My question
to Trump was, being an outsider, could he assemble a competent and
adequately loyal Administration, and he didn't have a good answer. I
mentioned Carter as an example of a very smart outsider who was hindered by
inability to delegate responsibility, so Trump ran with insulting him.

Typically (before Covid) Republicans and Libertarians were willing to be
surrounded by a polite and inquisitive crowd, Democrats avoided such
uncontrolled settings and unexpected questions. Bill Bradley was the
exception. While the crowd concentrated on him I had a nice chat with
Archibald Cox, the Watergate prosecutor, who actually had a high regard for
Nixon.
David Lesher
2024-09-10 15:50:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Some think Boeing will just give up on it!
from
https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-next-iss-mission-nasa-plan
...
If they do quit, can we get the money we paid them for what they've
not delivered?
--
A host is a host from coast to ***@panix.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
a425couple
2024-09-11 22:39:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Lesher
Post by a425couple
Some think Boeing will just give up on it!
from
https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-next-iss-mission-nasa-plan
...
If they do quit, can we get the money we paid them for what they've
not delivered?
Ahhhh,
I am of a very strong opinion, that we need a
2nd big plane manufacturer to succeed in this
world.

We would be very much degraded, if those wanting
blood in return for mistakes (737Max, Starliner,
etc.) got their wishes.

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