Discussion:
PresidentTrump's Rhetoric On Immigration....
Add Reply
Walt In Seattlle
2018-10-18 18:40:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
As they pertain to immigration in Europe but as Donald Trump's point of view or philosophy would apply to immigrants desiring immigration into the United States, President Trump's remarks in a press conference back on 7-13-2018 with the U.K.'s PM May were indicative of a man who is, in his political rhetoric, more about EXCLUSION and far less about INCLUSION. ***See: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-immigrants-culture-uk-press-conference-2018-7 Today, President Trump returns to a familiar stance with new threats. He, of course, would argue he certainly intends to exclude the importation of criminality and people wthout "merit", focusing myopically on MS-13. He'll do this, in part, as a function of political strategy, keeping his base of political support in mind.

Among that base are people who see immigrants as a threat, not jujst in terms of MS-13 or Trump's notion of raping Mexicans, but also in terms of change these people do not want to allow. In other words: these people do not want American culture to be contaminated by other cultures. "Contamination" is indeed the word they'd use to describe what immigrants shall do to America. To them, the people in lockstep with President Trump, the idea of America as a great "melting pot" of cultures is anathema.

President Trump models his political strategy regarding immigration, and therefore his rhetoric as to immigration, on how or what at least a portion of President Trump's political base feels because he needs these people to ensure Republican losses in the Congressional mid-terms will be held to a minimum or gains accomplished. In effect, President Trump is bluntly appealing to the racists and fearful xenophobes in American Culture. It's as simple as that.

Don't be fooled by Trump's assertion he is interested in "legal" immigration. His position is ostensibly wrapped up in the mostly undefined term of "merit" and it must be remembered that Trump prefers a DRAMATIC *DECREASE* in the number of people accepted for LEGAL immigration each year. Trump also has his preferences for nation or region of origin.

As I've stated elsewhere before today and as you'll eventually find: when Trump is pressed to define "merit", merit will come down to people who are the elite of other cultures and/or come with no financial liabilities for U.S. taxpayers. Although he may not say it directly, the other more important parameter of "merit" shall be that immigrants of "merit" will not present a POLITICAL threat to Trump, his political base and Republicans more generally. (i.e. Hispanics, who have been a basic demographic favoring the Democratic Party for decades and shunning the Republican Party, with just a few exceptions such as Cubans in Florida, need not apply) While Trump hopes to split off some Hispanic voters this Fall by touting a decrease in Hispanic unemployment, his overarching strategy, not just for the Congressioal mid-terms, is to impede immigration of Hispanics -- legal and illegal alike -- as much as he can. This too is a simple but inescapable reality.

Let's not forget Emma Lazarus and why as well as for what she was asked to write The New Colossus. Let's also not forget its partial inscription on the Statue of Liberty! It's important to remember because Lazarus was an advocate for "refugees", and asylum seekers -- the people who most often are attempting to *LEGALLY* immigrate at the moment from points South of the U.S.-Mexico border and who currenly represent the largest measure of attempted immigration from nations such as Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras to the U.S. for which Jeff Sessions and President Trump have objections while to whom Trump wants to say, for the most part, "NO" -- are precisely the people for whom Lazarus would be most concerned.

If we become what Donald Trump wants us to be, we're no longer America -- the American cultural "melting pot" as well as the much better and more welcoming America -- rather than an arrogant plus highly xenophobic or extremely suspicious America expecting the worst more than the best from immigrants unless they come matching certain parameters that include the notion they're the cream of the crop or well-endowed of mind, physique and pocketbook. Which is it we shall be?

Donald Trump's concept of America -- beyond the racial, ethnic or even religious divisons it wouold likely create -- as he would have it, is essentially that of a meritocracy on steroids. Over time, that meritocracy would change America from a land of opportunity and a "melting pot" to a land of the "Master Race".

I have suggested in other posts that, in concert with other OAS nations, the U.S. either provide help where it would be accepted or exert pressure, where help would be rejected, on El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras to deal with the problems that cause refugees to seek asylum in the U.S. But what progress has President Trump made or attempted to make along that line???? The best President Trump can do is (A) THREATEN to withdraw aid for nations such as Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador while (B) THREATENING to close the Mexico-U.S. border if Mecico does not stop a caravan of some several-thousand people. Is that what President Trump should have done? Is that ALL President Trump should have done?
Walt In Seattlle
2018-10-19 01:35:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Here are some details....

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/18/world/americas/trump-migrant-caravan.html
Walt In Seattlle
2018-10-20 00:30:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Quoting President Trump:
________________________________________
It's gonna be the election of the caravan. . . . As you know, I'm willing to send the military to defend our Southern border if necessary. All caused because of the illegal immigration onslaught brought by the Democrats because they refuse to acknowledge or change the laws. They like it. They also figure everybody coming in is gonna vote Democrat.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

This is evidence as to President Trump's political strategy. He's appealing to a fear for cultural and political change from immigrants who would "vote Democrat". He's feeding xenophobia in people as part of his political base who are already prone to see immigrants as "the enemy" unless they meet the specifications set out or that will someday be set out by President Trump, the immigration demagougue-in-chief of our time. And he will make of this a major mid-term issue if not *THE* major issue. That's what is going on in President Trump's version of mid-term politics.
Walt In Seattlle
2018-10-20 09:08:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Donald Trump often casts immigrants or migrants as "criminals". He does this, it seems, in line with his politics of fear. When challenged by those attempting to factcheck his assertions, what does he have? Explore the answers for yourself.

Is he deceiving even his political base? Is he in full Joe McCarthy mode?

No; we can't absorb, all at once, those from El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala who have suffered the consequences of government corruption, repression, gang violence and poverty in those places. But we could be both a voice and agent for change in those places, acting in concert with the OAS (Organization of American States) to help deal with problems which give refugees reason to come to the U.S. as applicants for asylum. Yet, President Trump chooses *NOT* to take that sort of constructive action. Instead, it at least seems he finds political advantage in demonizing people who, for the most part, are VICTIMS.

Has President Trump quite the history of demonizing victims or at least attempting to do so if not victimizing people he would opportunistically describe or label as "sad", "fake", "despicable", "disgraceful", "evil" or even "criminal"? Think carefully about the answer to that question.

Think about the "Birther" hoax. Think about Trump University. Think about Trump's claim to have seen American-Muslims celebrating on 9-11-2001. Think about candidate Trump's rhetorical attacks on Judge Gonzalo Curiel. Think about how candidate Trump treated John McCain. Think about how candidate Trump insinuated that Ted Cruz' father was complicit in or in favor of President Kennedy's assassination. Think about who businessman Trump and candidate Trump as well as President Trump has mocked along with why. Measure his TRUE character and.... be sure you don't forget the Access Hollywood Tape!

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/the-latest-trump-migrants-headed-to-us-hardened-criminals/articleshow/66289824.cms
Walt In Seattlle
2018-10-24 09:17:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
President Trump uses immigrants, (legal or illegal), identity rhetoric (i.e. "nationalism") and the politics of fear (i.e. the notion that America will be over-run by hoardes of criminals and terrorists) to "win" elections in which he is not on the ballot. Whether he cynically and amorally implements demagoguery in order to ensure Republicans retain control of Congress or because he believes what he writes and speaks, he is nothing but wrong in what he is doing.

No one, of whom I'm aware, having authority to speak for Democrats on immigration policy, has suggested open borders, welcoming criminal elements into America or looking the other way while terrorists cross the U.S.-Mexico border into America. Many, however, stand for ***REFUGEES***, not illegals, to have an option to apply, as set out ***IN LAW***, for asylum. That's what happened in July and this is the process which I'm sure most in the "caravan" from Honduras and Guatemala intend to use. Such ***LEGAL*** process has been a unique facet of American culture for a L-O-N-G time. President Trump talks and writes of abolishing it, although he does not directly say so. But it's time for him to own the essence of his words, if he'll stay with his rhetoric to the bitter end. Alternately, it's time for members of his family to speak up or find themselves forever on the wrong side of history as they share in President Trump's shameful actions.

I posted the following on June 15th to another newsgroup. I now reiterate it.

The Statue of Liberty and the lines from "The New Colosus" written thereupon seem incompatible with Donald Trump's idea of proper immigration policy. If America, for the most part, agrees with President Trump, why not tear down the Statue of Liberty?

As inscribed on the Statue Of Liberty and taken from The New Colosus .. See: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46550/the-new-colossus

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

By: Emma Lazarus ... See: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/emma-lazarus

The Kushners -- President Trump's daughter and son-in-law -- should take careful note, if they have not already, of Lazarus' history with particular regard to her advocacy for Jews along with opposition to anti-semitism AND support for Jewish REFUGEES. When Lazarus wrote The New Colosus, she wrote specifically in context to the Statue of Liberty and that for which she believed it stood. She, with little doubt to be offered, intended that her sonnet would apply to refugee Jews as much as others who would seek to "breathe free" in the U.S.

So, Kushners Jared and Ivanka: please educate your father-in-law and father accordingly or object to what he is doing if you have any conscience at all as well as compassion for those who seek refuge, as Jews have for many years. Of course, Jews have not been the only people to seek refuge here or elsewhere. But don't forget what happened in the 1930s, including to those on the ship Of the damned! ... See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis ... Are we not doing or is your father-in-law and father not attempting to legitimize policy which, at some future date, could bring us another repeat of history? Or are you complicit in your father-in-law and father's apparent notion -- imagined by him -- of fostering the creation of an American master race, with a false narrative of "merit" as a measure of those who qualify to be a "member" of the master race, protected by extremely restrictive immigration policy??? Not for Jews but for people from "S-HOLE COUNTRIES" as defined by your father-in-law and father???
Post by Walt In Seattlle
As they pertain to immigration in Europe but as Donald Trump's point of view or philosophy would apply to immigrants desiring immigration into the United States, President Trump's remarks in a press conference back on 7-13-2018 with the U.K.'s PM May were indicative of a man who is, in his political rhetoric, more about EXCLUSION and far less about INCLUSION. ***See: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-immigrants-culture-uk-press-conference-2018-7 Today, President Trump returns to a familiar stance with new threats. He, of course, would argue he certainly intends to exclude the importation of criminality and people wthout "merit", focusing myopically on MS-13. He'll do this, in part, as a function of political strategy, keeping his base of political support in mind.
Among that base are people who see immigrants as a threat, not jujst in terms of MS-13 or Trump's notion of raping Mexicans, but also in terms of change these people do not want to allow. In other words: these people do not want American culture to be contaminated by other cultures. "Contamination" is indeed the word they'd use to describe what immigrants shall do to America. To them, the people in lockstep with President Trump, the idea of America as a great "melting pot" of cultures is anathema.
President Trump models his political strategy regarding immigration, and therefore his rhetoric as to immigration, on how or what at least a portion of President Trump's political base feels because he needs these people to ensure Republican losses in the Congressional mid-terms will be held to a minimum or gains accomplished. In effect, President Trump is bluntly appealing to the racists and fearful xenophobes in American Culture. It's as simple as that.
Don't be fooled by Trump's assertion he is interested in "legal" immigration. His position is ostensibly wrapped up in the mostly undefined term of "merit" and it must be remembered that Trump prefers a DRAMATIC *DECREASE* in the number of people accepted for LEGAL immigration each year. Trump also has his preferences for nation or region of origin.
As I've stated elsewhere before today and as you'll eventually find: when Trump is pressed to define "merit", merit will come down to people who are the elite of other cultures and/or come with no financial liabilities for U.S. taxpayers. Although he may not say it directly, the other more important parameter of "merit" shall be that immigrants of "merit" will not present a POLITICAL threat to Trump, his political base and Republicans more generally. (i.e. Hispanics, who have been a basic demographic favoring the Democratic Party for decades and shunning the Republican Party, with just a few exceptions such as Cubans in Florida, need not apply) While Trump hopes to split off some Hispanic voters this Fall by touting a decrease in Hispanic unemployment, his overarching strategy, not just for the Congressioal mid-terms, is to impede immigration of Hispanics -- legal and illegal alike -- as much as he can. This too is a simple but inescapable reality.
Let's not forget Emma Lazarus and why as well as for what she was asked to write The New Colossus. Let's also not forget its partial inscription on the Statue of Liberty! It's important to remember because Lazarus was an advocate for "refugees", and asylum seekers -- the people who most often are attempting to *LEGALLY* immigrate at the moment from points South of the U.S.-Mexico border and who currenly represent the largest measure of attempted immigration from nations such as Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras to the U.S. for which Jeff Sessions and President Trump have objections while to whom Trump wants to say, for the most part, "NO" -- are precisely the people for whom Lazarus would be most concerned.
If we become what Donald Trump wants us to be, we're no longer America -- the American cultural "melting pot" as well as the much better and more welcoming America -- rather than an arrogant plus highly xenophobic or extremely suspicious America expecting the worst more than the best from immigrants unless they come matching certain parameters that include the notion they're the cream of the crop or well-endowed of mind, physique and pocketbook. Which is it we shall be?
Donald Trump's concept of America -- beyond the racial, ethnic or even religious divisons it wouold likely create -- as he would have it, is essentially that of a meritocracy on steroids. Over time, that meritocracy would change America from a land of opportunity and a "melting pot" to a land of the "Master Race".
I have suggested in other posts that, in concert with other OAS nations, the U.S. either provide help where it would be accepted or exert pressure, where help would be rejected, on El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras to deal with the problems that cause refugees to seek asylum in the U.S. But what progress has President Trump made or attempted to make along that line???? The best President Trump can do is (A) THREATEN to withdraw aid for nations such as Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador while (B) THREATENING to close the Mexico-U.S. border if Mecico does not stop a caravan of some several-thousand people. Is that what President Trump should have done? Is that ALL President Trump should have done?
Walt In Seattlle
2018-10-24 17:52:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
________________________________________
[...] President Trump https://thehill.com/people/donald-trump/homenews/media/412867-fox-friends-co-host-kilmeade-downplays-trump-campaign-contribution-made-while/homenews/campaign/412870-five-takeaways-from-heated-georgia-governor-debate/homenews/campaign/412868-rahm-emanuel-midterms-will-be-a-blue-wave-with-a-red-undertowhttps://thehill.com/people/donald-trump and Republicans have made illegal immigration a central issue in the homestretch to the 2018 midterm elections, setting up a showdown over the U.S.-Mexico border in December. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell https://thehill.com/people/mitch-mcconnell/homenews/senate/412825-mcconnell-after-restaurant-confrontation-i-will-not-be-intimidated/hilltv/rising/412792-members-of-congress-are-unpopular-because-theyre-viewed-as-being-out-for/opinion/cybersecurity/412729-russian-cyberattacks-are-the-real-threat-to-the-us-not-a-migranthttps://thehill.com/people/mitch-mcconnell (R-Ky.) and Speaker Paul Ryan https://thehill.com/people/paul-ryan/homenews/house/412869-rnc-shifts-35-mill-to-house-and-senate-campaign-arms-report/policy/healthcare/412718-e-cigarette-maker-juul-boosts-lobbying-efforts-in-face-of-regulatory/homenews/house/412623-one-dem-hopeful-in-virginia-wont-stop-talking-about-trump-another-barelyhttps://thehill.com/people/paul-ryan (R-Wis.) forestalled a fight over Trump's border wall before the election by punting consideration of the Homeland Security appropriations bill until the lame-duck session. When lawmakers return, they won't be able to avoid a fight over the spending measure, as funds for the Department of Homeland Security will run out on Dec. 7. But how it plays out could be determined by what happens on Nov. 6. If it is a good day for Democrats, there may be little reason for the party to bend on Trump's wall - even for a deal that provides a path to citizenship for "Dreamers," people who came to the United States illegally as children. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi https://thehill.com/people/nancy-pelosi/homenews/campaign/412832-election-countdown-two-weeks-to-midterms-hollywood-donors-flood-dems-with/hilltv/rising/412792-members-of-congress-are-unpopular-because-theyre-viewed-as-being-out-for/homenews/house/412675-boulder-thrown-through-mccarthys-office-windowhttps://thehill.com/people/nancy-pelosi (D-Calif.), who could be the Speaker-in-waiting if Democrats retake the House, said last week that she isn't interested in negotiating with Trump on the wall. Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer https://thehill.com/people/charles-schumer/homenews/senate/412346-manchin-wrestles-with-progressive-backlash-in-west-virginia/homenews/morning-report/411982-the-hills-morning-report/policy/finance/411656-mcconnell-says-deficitsnot-a-republican-problemhttps://thehill.com/people/charles-schumer's (D-N.Y.) office declined to comment on what his posture would be on the border wall after the elections. [...]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Walt In Seattlle
President Trump uses immigrants, (legal or illegal), identity rhetoric (i.e. "nationalism") and the politics of fear (i.e. the notion that America will be over-run by hoardes of criminals and terrorists) to "win" elections in which he is not on the ballot. Whether he cynically and amorally implements demagoguery in order to ensure Republicans retain control of Congress or because he believes what he writes and speaks, he is nothing but wrong in what he is doing.
No one, of whom I'm aware, having authority to speak for Democrats on immigration policy, has suggested open borders, welcoming criminal elements into America or looking the other way while terrorists cross the U.S.-Mexico border into America. Many, however, stand for ***REFUGEES***, not illegals, to have an option to apply, as set out ***IN LAW***, for asylum. That's what happened in July and this is the process which I'm sure most in the "caravan" from Honduras and Guatemala intend to use. Such ***LEGAL*** process has been a unique facet of American culture for a L-O-N-G time. President Trump talks and writes of abolishing it, although he does not directly say so. But it's time for him to own the essence of his words, if he'll stay with his rhetoric to the bitter end. Alternately, it's time for members of his family to speak up or find themselves forever on the wrong side of history as they share in President Trump's shameful actions.
I posted the following on June 15th to another newsgroup. I now reiterate it.
The Statue of Liberty and the lines from "The New Colosus" written thereupon seem incompatible with Donald Trump's idea of proper immigration policy. If America, for the most part, agrees with President Trump, why not tear down the Statue of Liberty?
As inscribed on the Statue Of Liberty and taken from The New Colosus .. See: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46550/the-new-colossus
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
By: Emma Lazarus ... See: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/emma-lazarus
The Kushners -- President Trump's daughter and son-in-law -- should take careful note, if they have not already, of Lazarus' history with particular regard to her advocacy for Jews along with opposition to anti-semitism AND support for Jewish REFUGEES. When Lazarus wrote The New Colosus, she wrote specifically in context to the Statue of Liberty and that for which she believed it stood. She, with little doubt to be offered, intended that her sonnet would apply to refugee Jews as much as others who would seek to "breathe free" in the U.S.
So, Kushners Jared and Ivanka: please educate your father-in-law and father accordingly or object to what he is doing if you have any conscience at all as well as compassion for those who seek refuge, as Jews have for many years. Of course, Jews have not been the only people to seek refuge here or elsewhere. But don't forget what happened in the 1930s, including to those on the ship Of the damned! ... See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis ... Are we not doing or is your father-in-law and father not attempting to legitimize policy which, at some future date, could bring us another repeat of history? Or are you complicit in your father-in-law and father's apparent notion -- imagined by him -- of fostering the creation of an American master race, with a false narrative of "merit" as a measure of those who qualify to be a "member" of the master race, protected by extremely restrictive immigration policy??? Not for Jews but for people from "S-HOLE COUNTRIES" as defined by your father-in-law and father???
Post by Walt In Seattlle
As they pertain to immigration in Europe but as Donald Trump's point of view or philosophy would apply to immigrants desiring immigration into the United States, President Trump's remarks in a press conference back on 7-13-2018 with the U.K.'s PM May were indicative of a man who is, in his political rhetoric, more about EXCLUSION and far less about INCLUSION. ***See: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-immigrants-culture-uk-press-conference-2018-7 Today, President Trump returns to a familiar stance with new threats. He, of course, would argue he certainly intends to exclude the importation of criminality and people wthout "merit", focusing myopically on MS-13. He'll do this, in part, as a function of political strategy, keeping his base of political support in mind.
Among that base are people who see immigrants as a threat, not jujst in terms of MS-13 or Trump's notion of raping Mexicans, but also in terms of change these people do not want to allow. In other words: these people do not want American culture to be contaminated by other cultures. "Contamination" is indeed the word they'd use to describe what immigrants shall do to America. To them, the people in lockstep with President Trump, the idea of America as a great "melting pot" of cultures is anathema.
President Trump models his political strategy regarding immigration, and therefore his rhetoric as to immigration, on how or what at least a portion of President Trump's political base feels because he needs these people to ensure Republican losses in the Congressional mid-terms will be held to a minimum or gains accomplished. In effect, President Trump is bluntly appealing to the racists and fearful xenophobes in American Culture. It's as simple as that.
Don't be fooled by Trump's assertion he is interested in "legal" immigration. His position is ostensibly wrapped up in the mostly undefined term of "merit" and it must be remembered that Trump prefers a DRAMATIC *DECREASE* in the number of people accepted for LEGAL immigration each year. Trump also has his preferences for nation or region of origin.
As I've stated elsewhere before today and as you'll eventually find: when Trump is pressed to define "merit", merit will come down to people who are the elite of other cultures and/or come with no financial liabilities for U.S. taxpayers. Although he may not say it directly, the other more important parameter of "merit" shall be that immigrants of "merit" will not present a POLITICAL threat to Trump, his political base and Republicans more generally. (i.e. Hispanics, who have been a basic demographic favoring the Democratic Party for decades and shunning the Republican Party, with just a few exceptions such as Cubans in Florida, need not apply) While Trump hopes to split off some Hispanic voters this Fall by touting a decrease in Hispanic unemployment, his overarching strategy, not just for the Congressioal mid-terms, is to impede immigration of Hispanics -- legal and illegal alike -- as much as he can. This too is a simple but inescapable reality.
Let's not forget Emma Lazarus and why as well as for what she was asked to write The New Colossus. Let's also not forget its partial inscription on the Statue of Liberty! It's important to remember because Lazarus was an advocate for "refugees", and asylum seekers -- the people who most often are attempting to *LEGALLY* immigrate at the moment from points South of the U.S.-Mexico border and who currenly represent the largest measure of attempted immigration from nations such as Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras to the U.S. for which Jeff Sessions and President Trump have objections while to whom Trump wants to say, for the most part, "NO" -- are precisely the people for whom Lazarus would be most concerned.
If we become what Donald Trump wants us to be, we're no longer America -- the American cultural "melting pot" as well as the much better and more welcoming America -- rather than an arrogant plus highly xenophobic or extremely suspicious America expecting the worst more than the best from immigrants unless they come matching certain parameters that include the notion they're the cream of the crop or well-endowed of mind, physique and pocketbook. Which is it we shall be?
Donald Trump's concept of America -- beyond the racial, ethnic or even religious divisons it wouold likely create -- as he would have it, is essentially that of a meritocracy on steroids. Over time, that meritocracy would change America from a land of opportunity and a "melting pot" to a land of the "Master Race".
I have suggested in other posts that, in concert with other OAS nations, the U.S. either provide help where it would be accepted or exert pressure, where help would be rejected, on El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras to deal with the problems that cause refugees to seek asylum in the U.S. But what progress has President Trump made or attempted to make along that line???? The best President Trump can do is (A) THREATEN to withdraw aid for nations such as Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador while (B) THREATENING to close the Mexico-U.S. border if Mecico does not stop a caravan of some several-thousand people. Is that what President Trump should have done? Is that ALL President Trump should have done?
Walt In Seattlle
2018-10-24 18:05:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
A second wave of immigrants from Central America soon to follow those now traveling through Mexico? Are you ready now, Mr. President, to work with the OAS to either help resolve conditions in El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala or intervene where those nations will not accept help?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/another-migrant-caravan-gathers-in-guatemala-1540322922?mod=hp_lead_pos5
Post by Walt In Seattlle
________________________________________
[...] President Trump https://thehill.com/people/donald-trump/homenews/media/412867-fox-friends-co-host-kilmeade-downplays-trump-campaign-contribution-made-while/homenews/campaign/412870-five-takeaways-from-heated-georgia-governor-debate/homenews/campaign/412868-rahm-emanuel-midterms-will-be-a-blue-wave-with-a-red-undertowhttps://thehill.com/people/donald-trump and Republicans have made illegal immigration a central issue in the homestretch to the 2018 midterm elections, setting up a showdown over the U.S.-Mexico border in December. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell https://thehill.com/people/mitch-mcconnell/homenews/senate/412825-mcconnell-after-restaurant-confrontation-i-will-not-be-intimidated/hilltv/rising/412792-members-of-congress-are-unpopular-because-theyre-viewed-as-being-out-for/opinion/cybersecurity/412729-russian-cyberattacks-are-the-real-threat-to-the-us-not-a-migranthttps://thehill.com/people/mitch-mcconnell (R-Ky.) and Speaker Paul Ryan https://thehill.com/people/paul-ryan/homenews/house/412869-rnc-shifts-35-mill-to-house-and-senate-campaign-arms-report/policy/healthcare/412718-e-cigarette-maker-juul-boosts-lobbying-efforts-in-face-of-regulatory/homenews/house/412623-one-dem-hopeful-in-virginia-wont-stop-talking-about-trump-another-barelyhttps://thehill.com/people/paul-ryan (R-Wis.) forestalled a fight over Trump's border wall before the election by punting consideration of the Homeland Security appropriations bill until the lame-duck session. When lawmakers return, they won't be able to avoid a fight over the spending measure, as funds for the Department of Homeland Security will run out on Dec. 7. But how it plays out could be determined by what happens on Nov. 6. If it is a good day for Democrats, there may be little reason for the party to bend on Trump's wall - even for a deal that provides a path to citizenship for "Dreamers," people who came to the United States illegally as children. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi https://thehill.com/people/nancy-pelosi/homenews/campaign/412832-election-countdown-two-weeks-to-midterms-hollywood-donors-flood-dems-with/hilltv/rising/412792-members-of-congress-are-unpopular-because-theyre-viewed-as-being-out-for/homenews/house/412675-boulder-thrown-through-mccarthys-office-windowhttps://thehill.com/people/nancy-pelosi (D-Calif.), who could be the Speaker-in-waiting if Democrats retake the House, said last week that she isn't interested in negotiating with Trump on the wall. Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer https://thehill.com/people/charles-schumer/homenews/senate/412346-manchin-wrestles-with-progressive-backlash-in-west-virginia/homenews/morning-report/411982-the-hills-morning-report/policy/finance/411656-mcconnell-says-deficitsnot-a-republican-problemhttps://thehill.com/people/charles-schumer's (D-N.Y.) office declined to comment on what his posture would be on the border wall after the elections. [...]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Walt In Seattlle
President Trump uses immigrants, (legal or illegal), identity rhetoric (i.e. "nationalism") and the politics of fear (i.e. the notion that America will be over-run by hoardes of criminals and terrorists) to "win" elections in which he is not on the ballot. Whether he cynically and amorally implements demagoguery in order to ensure Republicans retain control of Congress or because he believes what he writes and speaks, he is nothing but wrong in what he is doing.
No one, of whom I'm aware, having authority to speak for Democrats on immigration policy, has suggested open borders, welcoming criminal elements into America or looking the other way while terrorists cross the U.S.-Mexico border into America. Many, however, stand for ***REFUGEES***, not illegals, to have an option to apply, as set out ***IN LAW***, for asylum. That's what happened in July and this is the process which I'm sure most in the "caravan" from Honduras and Guatemala intend to use. Such ***LEGAL*** process has been a unique facet of American culture for a L-O-N-G time. President Trump talks and writes of abolishing it, although he does not directly say so. But it's time for him to own the essence of his words, if he'll stay with his rhetoric to the bitter end. Alternately, it's time for members of his family to speak up or find themselves forever on the wrong side of history as they share in President Trump's shameful actions.
I posted the following on June 15th to another newsgroup. I now reiterate it.
The Statue of Liberty and the lines from "The New Colosus" written thereupon seem incompatible with Donald Trump's idea of proper immigration policy. If America, for the most part, agrees with President Trump, why not tear down the Statue of Liberty?
As inscribed on the Statue Of Liberty and taken from The New Colosus .. See: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46550/the-new-colossus
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
By: Emma Lazarus ... See: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/emma-lazarus
The Kushners -- President Trump's daughter and son-in-law -- should take careful note, if they have not already, of Lazarus' history with particular regard to her advocacy for Jews along with opposition to anti-semitism AND support for Jewish REFUGEES. When Lazarus wrote The New Colosus, she wrote specifically in context to the Statue of Liberty and that for which she believed it stood. She, with little doubt to be offered, intended that her sonnet would apply to refugee Jews as much as others who would seek to "breathe free" in the U.S.
So, Kushners Jared and Ivanka: please educate your father-in-law and father accordingly or object to what he is doing if you have any conscience at all as well as compassion for those who seek refuge, as Jews have for many years. Of course, Jews have not been the only people to seek refuge here or elsewhere. But don't forget what happened in the 1930s, including to those on the ship Of the damned! ... See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis ... Are we not doing or is your father-in-law and father not attempting to legitimize policy which, at some future date, could bring us another repeat of history? Or are you complicit in your father-in-law and father's apparent notion -- imagined by him -- of fostering the creation of an American master race, with a false narrative of "merit" as a measure of those who qualify to be a "member" of the master race, protected by extremely restrictive immigration policy??? Not for Jews but for people from "S-HOLE COUNTRIES" as defined by your father-in-law and father???
Post by Walt In Seattlle
As they pertain to immigration in Europe but as Donald Trump's point of view or philosophy would apply to immigrants desiring immigration into the United States, President Trump's remarks in a press conference back on 7-13-2018 with the U.K.'s PM May were indicative of a man who is, in his political rhetoric, more about EXCLUSION and far less about INCLUSION. ***See: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-immigrants-culture-uk-press-conference-2018-7 Today, President Trump returns to a familiar stance with new threats. He, of course, would argue he certainly intends to exclude the importation of criminality and people wthout "merit", focusing myopically on MS-13. He'll do this, in part, as a function of political strategy, keeping his base of political support in mind.
Among that base are people who see immigrants as a threat, not jujst in terms of MS-13 or Trump's notion of raping Mexicans, but also in terms of change these people do not want to allow. In other words: these people do not want American culture to be contaminated by other cultures. "Contamination" is indeed the word they'd use to describe what immigrants shall do to America. To them, the people in lockstep with President Trump, the idea of America as a great "melting pot" of cultures is anathema.
President Trump models his political strategy regarding immigration, and therefore his rhetoric as to immigration, on how or what at least a portion of President Trump's political base feels because he needs these people to ensure Republican losses in the Congressional mid-terms will be held to a minimum or gains accomplished. In effect, President Trump is bluntly appealing to the racists and fearful xenophobes in American Culture. It's as simple as that.
Don't be fooled by Trump's assertion he is interested in "legal" immigration. His position is ostensibly wrapped up in the mostly undefined term of "merit" and it must be remembered that Trump prefers a DRAMATIC *DECREASE* in the number of people accepted for LEGAL immigration each year. Trump also has his preferences for nation or region of origin.
As I've stated elsewhere before today and as you'll eventually find: when Trump is pressed to define "merit", merit will come down to people who are the elite of other cultures and/or come with no financial liabilities for U.S. taxpayers. Although he may not say it directly, the other more important parameter of "merit" shall be that immigrants of "merit" will not present a POLITICAL threat to Trump, his political base and Republicans more generally. (i.e. Hispanics, who have been a basic demographic favoring the Democratic Party for decades and shunning the Republican Party, with just a few exceptions such as Cubans in Florida, need not apply) While Trump hopes to split off some Hispanic voters this Fall by touting a decrease in Hispanic unemployment, his overarching strategy, not just for the Congressioal mid-terms, is to impede immigration of Hispanics -- legal and illegal alike -- as much as he can. This too is a simple but inescapable reality.
Let's not forget Emma Lazarus and why as well as for what she was asked to write The New Colossus. Let's also not forget its partial inscription on the Statue of Liberty! It's important to remember because Lazarus was an advocate for "refugees", and asylum seekers -- the people who most often are attempting to *LEGALLY* immigrate at the moment from points South of the U.S.-Mexico border and who currenly represent the largest measure of attempted immigration from nations such as Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras to the U.S. for which Jeff Sessions and President Trump have objections while to whom Trump wants to say, for the most part, "NO" -- are precisely the people for whom Lazarus would be most concerned.
If we become what Donald Trump wants us to be, we're no longer America -- the American cultural "melting pot" as well as the much better and more welcoming America -- rather than an arrogant plus highly xenophobic or extremely suspicious America expecting the worst more than the best from immigrants unless they come matching certain parameters that include the notion they're the cream of the crop or well-endowed of mind, physique and pocketbook. Which is it we shall be?
Donald Trump's concept of America -- beyond the racial, ethnic or even religious divisons it wouold likely create -- as he would have it, is essentially that of a meritocracy on steroids. Over time, that meritocracy would change America from a land of opportunity and a "melting pot" to a land of the "Master Race".
I have suggested in other posts that, in concert with other OAS nations, the U.S. either provide help where it would be accepted or exert pressure, where help would be rejected, on El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras to deal with the problems that cause refugees to seek asylum in the U.S. But what progress has President Trump made or attempted to make along that line???? The best President Trump can do is (A) THREATEN to withdraw aid for nations such as Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador while (B) THREATENING to close the Mexico-U.S. border if Mecico does not stop a caravan of some several-thousand people. Is that what President Trump should have done? Is that ALL President Trump should have done?
Walt In Seattlle
2018-10-24 18:13:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-obama-immigration-tweet-self-own-f02f793487d6/
Post by Walt In Seattlle
A second wave of immigrants from Central America soon to follow those now traveling through Mexico? Are you ready now, Mr. President, to work with the OAS to either help resolve conditions in El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala or intervene where those nations will not accept help?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/another-migrant-caravan-gathers-in-guatemala-1540322922?mod=hp_lead_pos5
Post by Walt In Seattlle
________________________________________
[...] President Trump https://thehill.com/people/donald-trump/homenews/media/412867-fox-friends-co-host-kilmeade-downplays-trump-campaign-contribution-made-while/homenews/campaign/412870-five-takeaways-from-heated-georgia-governor-debate/homenews/campaign/412868-rahm-emanuel-midterms-will-be-a-blue-wave-with-a-red-undertowhttps://thehill.com/people/donald-trump and Republicans have made illegal immigration a central issue in the homestretch to the 2018 midterm elections, setting up a showdown over the U.S.-Mexico border in December. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell https://thehill.com/people/mitch-mcconnell/homenews/senate/412825-mcconnell-after-restaurant-confrontation-i-will-not-be-intimidated/hilltv/rising/412792-members-of-congress-are-unpopular-because-theyre-viewed-as-being-out-for/opinion/cybersecurity/412729-russian-cyberattacks-are-the-real-threat-to-the-us-not-a-migranthttps://thehill.com/people/mitch-mcconnell (R-Ky.) and Speaker Paul Ryan https://thehill.com/people/paul-ryan/homenews/house/412869-rnc-shifts-35-mill-to-house-and-senate-campaign-arms-report/policy/healthcare/412718-e-cigarette-maker-juul-boosts-lobbying-efforts-in-face-of-regulatory/homenews/house/412623-one-dem-hopeful-in-virginia-wont-stop-talking-about-trump-another-barelyhttps://thehill.com/people/paul-ryan (R-Wis.) forestalled a fight over Trump's border wall before the election by punting consideration of the Homeland Security appropriations bill until the lame-duck session. When lawmakers return, they won't be able to avoid a fight over the spending measure, as funds for the Department of Homeland Security will run out on Dec. 7. But how it plays out could be determined by what happens on Nov. 6. If it is a good day for Democrats, there may be little reason for the party to bend on Trump's wall - even for a deal that provides a path to citizenship for "Dreamers," people who came to the United States illegally as children. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi https://thehill.com/people/nancy-pelosi/homenews/campaign/412832-election-countdown-two-weeks-to-midterms-hollywood-donors-flood-dems-with/hilltv/rising/412792-members-of-congress-are-unpopular-because-theyre-viewed-as-being-out-for/homenews/house/412675-boulder-thrown-through-mccarthys-office-windowhttps://thehill.com/people/nancy-pelosi (D-Calif.), who could be the Speaker-in-waiting if Democrats retake the House, said last week that she isn't interested in negotiating with Trump on the wall. Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer https://thehill.com/people/charles-schumer/homenews/senate/412346-manchin-wrestles-with-progressive-backlash-in-west-virginia/homenews/morning-report/411982-the-hills-morning-report/policy/finance/411656-mcconnell-says-deficitsnot-a-republican-problemhttps://thehill.com/people/charles-schumer's (D-N.Y.) office declined to comment on what his posture would be on the border wall after the elections. [...]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Walt In Seattlle
President Trump uses immigrants, (legal or illegal), identity rhetoric (i.e. "nationalism") and the politics of fear (i.e. the notion that America will be over-run by hoardes of criminals and terrorists) to "win" elections in which he is not on the ballot. Whether he cynically and amorally implements demagoguery in order to ensure Republicans retain control of Congress or because he believes what he writes and speaks, he is nothing but wrong in what he is doing.
No one, of whom I'm aware, having authority to speak for Democrats on immigration policy, has suggested open borders, welcoming criminal elements into America or looking the other way while terrorists cross the U.S.-Mexico border into America. Many, however, stand for ***REFUGEES***, not illegals, to have an option to apply, as set out ***IN LAW***, for asylum. That's what happened in July and this is the process which I'm sure most in the "caravan" from Honduras and Guatemala intend to use. Such ***LEGAL*** process has been a unique facet of American culture for a L-O-N-G time. President Trump talks and writes of abolishing it, although he does not directly say so. But it's time for him to own the essence of his words, if he'll stay with his rhetoric to the bitter end. Alternately, it's time for members of his family to speak up or find themselves forever on the wrong side of history as they share in President Trump's shameful actions.
I posted the following on June 15th to another newsgroup. I now reiterate it.
The Statue of Liberty and the lines from "The New Colosus" written thereupon seem incompatible with Donald Trump's idea of proper immigration policy. If America, for the most part, agrees with President Trump, why not tear down the Statue of Liberty?
As inscribed on the Statue Of Liberty and taken from The New Colosus .. See: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46550/the-new-colossus
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
By: Emma Lazarus ... See: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/emma-lazarus
The Kushners -- President Trump's daughter and son-in-law -- should take careful note, if they have not already, of Lazarus' history with particular regard to her advocacy for Jews along with opposition to anti-semitism AND support for Jewish REFUGEES. When Lazarus wrote The New Colosus, she wrote specifically in context to the Statue of Liberty and that for which she believed it stood. She, with little doubt to be offered, intended that her sonnet would apply to refugee Jews as much as others who would seek to "breathe free" in the U.S.
So, Kushners Jared and Ivanka: please educate your father-in-law and father accordingly or object to what he is doing if you have any conscience at all as well as compassion for those who seek refuge, as Jews have for many years. Of course, Jews have not been the only people to seek refuge here or elsewhere. But don't forget what happened in the 1930s, including to those on the ship Of the damned! ... See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis ... Are we not doing or is your father-in-law and father not attempting to legitimize policy which, at some future date, could bring us another repeat of history? Or are you complicit in your father-in-law and father's apparent notion -- imagined by him -- of fostering the creation of an American master race, with a false narrative of "merit" as a measure of those who qualify to be a "member" of the master race, protected by extremely restrictive immigration policy??? Not for Jews but for people from "S-HOLE COUNTRIES" as defined by your father-in-law and father???
Post by Walt In Seattlle
As they pertain to immigration in Europe but as Donald Trump's point of view or philosophy would apply to immigrants desiring immigration into the United States, President Trump's remarks in a press conference back on 7-13-2018 with the U.K.'s PM May were indicative of a man who is, in his political rhetoric, more about EXCLUSION and far less about INCLUSION. ***See: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-immigrants-culture-uk-press-conference-2018-7 Today, President Trump returns to a familiar stance with new threats. He, of course, would argue he certainly intends to exclude the importation of criminality and people wthout "merit", focusing myopically on MS-13. He'll do this, in part, as a function of political strategy, keeping his base of political support in mind.
Among that base are people who see immigrants as a threat, not jujst in terms of MS-13 or Trump's notion of raping Mexicans, but also in terms of change these people do not want to allow. In other words: these people do not want American culture to be contaminated by other cultures. "Contamination" is indeed the word they'd use to describe what immigrants shall do to America. To them, the people in lockstep with President Trump, the idea of America as a great "melting pot" of cultures is anathema.
President Trump models his political strategy regarding immigration, and therefore his rhetoric as to immigration, on how or what at least a portion of President Trump's political base feels because he needs these people to ensure Republican losses in the Congressional mid-terms will be held to a minimum or gains accomplished. In effect, President Trump is bluntly appealing to the racists and fearful xenophobes in American Culture. It's as simple as that.
Don't be fooled by Trump's assertion he is interested in "legal" immigration. His position is ostensibly wrapped up in the mostly undefined term of "merit" and it must be remembered that Trump prefers a DRAMATIC *DECREASE* in the number of people accepted for LEGAL immigration each year. Trump also has his preferences for nation or region of origin.
As I've stated elsewhere before today and as you'll eventually find: when Trump is pressed to define "merit", merit will come down to people who are the elite of other cultures and/or come with no financial liabilities for U.S. taxpayers. Although he may not say it directly, the other more important parameter of "merit" shall be that immigrants of "merit" will not present a POLITICAL threat to Trump, his political base and Republicans more generally. (i.e. Hispanics, who have been a basic demographic favoring the Democratic Party for decades and shunning the Republican Party, with just a few exceptions such as Cubans in Florida, need not apply) While Trump hopes to split off some Hispanic voters this Fall by touting a decrease in Hispanic unemployment, his overarching strategy, not just for the Congressioal mid-terms, is to impede immigration of Hispanics -- legal and illegal alike -- as much as he can. This too is a simple but inescapable reality.
Let's not forget Emma Lazarus and why as well as for what she was asked to write The New Colossus. Let's also not forget its partial inscription on the Statue of Liberty! It's important to remember because Lazarus was an advocate for "refugees", and asylum seekers -- the people who most often are attempting to *LEGALLY* immigrate at the moment from points South of the U.S.-Mexico border and who currenly represent the largest measure of attempted immigration from nations such as Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras to the U.S. for which Jeff Sessions and President Trump have objections while to whom Trump wants to say, for the most part, "NO" -- are precisely the people for whom Lazarus would be most concerned.
If we become what Donald Trump wants us to be, we're no longer America -- the American cultural "melting pot" as well as the much better and more welcoming America -- rather than an arrogant plus highly xenophobic or extremely suspicious America expecting the worst more than the best from immigrants unless they come matching certain parameters that include the notion they're the cream of the crop or well-endowed of mind, physique and pocketbook. Which is it we shall be?
Donald Trump's concept of America -- beyond the racial, ethnic or even religious divisons it wouold likely create -- as he would have it, is essentially that of a meritocracy on steroids. Over time, that meritocracy would change America from a land of opportunity and a "melting pot" to a land of the "Master Race".
I have suggested in other posts that, in concert with other OAS nations, the U.S. either provide help where it would be accepted or exert pressure, where help would be rejected, on El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras to deal with the problems that cause refugees to seek asylum in the U.S. But what progress has President Trump made or attempted to make along that line???? The best President Trump can do is (A) THREATEN to withdraw aid for nations such as Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador while (B) THREATENING to close the Mexico-U.S. border if Mecico does not stop a caravan of some several-thousand people. Is that what President Trump should have done? Is that ALL President Trump should have done?
Walt In Seattlle
2018-10-28 20:42:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Ms. Nielsen does not know or is ignoring that there is a LEGAL process under which migrants or potential immigrants may come to apply for asylum as refugees. If Emma Lazarus were alive today, I wonder what she'd have to say and how Nielsen would respond.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/28/migrant-caravan-honduras-us-border-dhs-943770
________________________________________
[...] A caravan of Central American immigrants headed for the U.S. through Mexico “is not getting in,” Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen vowed on Sunday. “My general message to this caravan is: Do not come,” Nielsen told “Fox News Sunday.” “You will not be allowed in.” “There is a right way to immigrate to the United States,” she added, “and this is not it.” Since its formation, the caravan has reportedly swelled to more than 7,000 people. But its size is nothing new, Nielsen said. “We have a crisis at the border right now ... [and] this caravan is one iteration of that,” Nielsen said. “Frankly, we essentially see caravans every day with these numbers."
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Is Nielsen giving us good information? Color me skeptical!

There's a way to deal with refugees that would diminish or nearly eliminate the influx of refugees. The solution involves going to the source of the problem. But it does not fit with Donald Trump's political agenda which depends on the politics of fear. The solution is for the nations of the Americas to join in an effort to help or compel Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador address that which causes people to leave their territory. Donald Trump favors images of threatening demons to be slayed rather than politically boring but most practical solutions to problems.
Walt In Seattlle
2018-10-29 00:47:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Do you now understand, Mr. President, that the politics of fear can and does have potential for blowback??

https://www.hias.org/hias-statement-central-american-caravan
________________________________________
[...] Oct 22, 2018 SILVER SPRING, Md.--Under longstanding U.S. and international law, individuals fleeing persecution have the right to seek asylum. HIAS urges the United States government to respect the rule of law, provide all asylum seekers the opportunity to present their claims as required by law, and treat all migrants fairly and humanely. We hope that the asylum seekers and migrants stay safe and that they comply with established laws and procedures for seeking asylum and entering the United States. Most fundamentally, we must remain committed to upholding the human rights of those seeking asylum. [...]
-------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pittsburgh-congregation-leaders-20181028-story.html
________________________________________
[...] It does not seem to have been a random attack. On Oct. 10, the shooting suspect, Robert Bowers, of Pittsburgh, had posted a list of HIAS’ partners on social media, which included Dor Hadash. Then, in the moments before the shooting, Bowers posted again, writing that “HIAS likes to bring invaders in that kill our people” — suggesting that the Dor Hadash congregation may have been his specific alleged target due to its refugee advocacy. [...]
-------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/caravan-lie-sparked-massacre-american-jews/574213/
________________________________________
[...] The Tree of Life shooter criticized Trump for not being racist or anti-Semitic enough. But with respect to the caravan, the shooter merely followed the logic of the president and his allies: He was willing to do whatever was necessary to prevent an “invasion” of Latinos planned by perfidious Jews, a treasonous attempt to seek “the destruction of American society and culture.” The apparent spark for the worst anti-Semitic massacre in American history was a racist hoax inflamed by a U.S. president seeking to help his party win a midterm election. There is no political gesture, no public statement, and no alteration in rhetoric or behavior that will change this fact. The shooter might have found a different reason to act on a different day. But he chose to act on Saturday, and he apparently chose to act in response to a political fiction that the president himself chose to spread, and that his followers chose to amplify. As for those who aided the president in his propaganda campaign, who enabled him to prey on racist fears to fabricate a national emergency, those who said to themselves, “This is the play”? Every single one of them bears some responsibility for what followed. Their condemnations of antisemitism are meaningless. Their thoughts and prayers are worthless. Their condolences are irrelevant. They can never undo what they have done, and what they have done will never be forgotten. [...]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Walt In Seattlle
2018-10-29 03:30:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
More grist for the mill.....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/10/28/how-much-responsibility-does-trump-bear-synagogue-shooting-pittsburgh/
Walt In Seattlle
2018-10-29 19:17:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
This is more of your discredited politics of fear, Mr. President. As such, your tweet, quoted and cited below, is, to be generous to you, MISLEADING! You, of course, have no way to know the extent to which "gang members" and "very bad people" are "mixed in" with the Central-American Caravan. If you had REAL data to backup your assertion, I'm sure you would have presented it. Instead, it's probably an empty assertion and/or assumption you might offer only because it can evoke FEAR! Thus, I understand leading people to believe that gang members and very bad people are "many", not just "some" or a "few". It seems that, for you and your political objectives, a perceptions of "many" is necessary to promulgate fear.

To state, in the context you have, that our military is waiting for the Caravan, carries the veiled but obvious threat the military will act directly to prevent "invasion". However, you likely know all too well the military will *NOT* directly interact with the Caravan if it arrives at the U.S.-Mexico border; that's not their purpose or the orders they've been given, and circumstances would have to be quite different from what they apparently are to justify direct interaction. You, I surmise, could declare circumstances exist for the military to directly interact with the Caravan and prevent whatever you'd claim to be an "invasion". Yet, to do so when the bulk of the Caravan intends to come and LEGALLY apply for asylum would only further discredit your actions and statements on immigration!

To say people in the Caravan will "not be admitted into the United States unless [they] go through the legal process" and then label the caravan as an "invasion" carries the apparent misleading subsumption members of the Caravan do not intend to use a "legal process" for admission. In other words: it seems you subsume or pretend the Caravan is comprised significantly or mostly of people who intend to invade rather than use the "legal process" for refugees to seek asylum. You can't know who intends to "invade" and who intends to apply for asylum. But to admit you don't know would not accommodate yourr politics of fear. In fact, the admission would diminish the effectiveness of a campaign implementing the politics of fear.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1056919064906469376
________________________________________
[President Donald J. Trump on 10-29-2018 at 7:41 PDT] Many Gang Members and some very bad people are mixed into the Caravan heading to our Southern Border. Please go back, you will not be admitted into the United States unless you go through the legal process. This is an invasion of our Country and our Military is waiting for you!
------------------------------------------------------------------
Walt In Seattlle
2018-10-30 18:11:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
President Trump's indication of intention or "plan" to abrogate a longstanding concept of law and interpretation of the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is no surprise to me. His declaration of intent is consistent with his previous actions and likely falls within the expectations of many in his political base. Today, President Trump returns to a familiar stance with a new threat to fundamentally change America. President Trump, of course, would argue he certainly intends to exclude those who would bring to America that which at least some in his political base do not want.

Apart from limiting importation of criminality President Trump implies then attributes to the bulk of potential immigrants who come to apply for asylum along with other people wthout "merit", President Trump does this, in part, as a function of political strategy, keeping his base of political support in mind.

Among that base are people who see immigrants as a threat, not jujst in terms of MS-13 or Trump's notion of raping Mexicans or generally "very bad [immigrants]", but also in terms of change some people in President Trump's base do not want to allow. In other words and as I've stated in the first post of this topic: such people do not want American culture to be contaminated by other cultures. "Contamination" is indeed the word they'd use to describe what immigrants shall do to America. To them -- "them" being the people in lockstep with President Trump -- the idea of America as a great "melting pot" of cultures is anathema.

Again, President Trump models his political strategy regarding immigration, and therefore his rhetoric as to immigration, on how or what at least a portion of President Trump's political base feels because he needs these people to ensure Republican losses in the Congressional mid-terms will be held to a minimum or gains accomplished. In effect, President Trump is bluntly appealing to the racists and fearful xenophobes in American culture.

President Trump's "plan" is patently unconstitutional. But that minght not matter. The utterance of it may be enough to stir at least some in President Trump's base to come out and vote for Republican candidates to Congress, given President Trump probably is correct in his perception that the Congressional mid-terms have become a referendum on the President and not so much about local candidates as has been the case in the past. Additionally as well as if President Trump intends to abrogate a birthright of citizenship for some born in the U.S. rather than limit application of this issue exclusively to strategy for energizing a political base, it's important to note that, although this is a matter with potential to go to the U.S. Supreme Court, the court may find in Trump's favor. The court, being influenced by politics of the day more than it would like to admit, has found itself on the wrong side of history as well as interpretation of law or intent of the U.S. Constitution's framers in several instances, and I don't doubt that's possible yet again with the current slate of justices on the court. So, be forewarned: A birthright of citizenship may not be so assured as you would think or hope.

Finally, I believe America under Donald Trump is becoming less the America it was -- the America of which most of us could be proud -- before Donald Trump's stewardship. He has brought some of the worst elements of human nature to his presidency and amplified same as such exists in the American populace. We are worse for what he has done, even while that concept could be seen as counter-intuitive when considered against a booming economy. But a fat pocketbook does not absolve us of our flaws in character or clear error in our cultural inclination to dismiss our better angels in deference to our dark side. It seems that's where we're going and that's quite depressing.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/30/trump-end-birthright-citizenship-947962
________________________________________
[...] President Donald Trump said Monday that he is planning to sign an executive order that would end the practice of bestowing U.S. citizenship onto babies born in the U.S. to non-citizen parents, a move almost certain to draw legal challenges on constitutional grounds. In an interview with Axios on Monday, Trump said that he had discussed the idea with the White House counsel and that “it’s in the process, it will happen, with an executive order.” Story Continued Below Such an order would seek to override the 14th Amendment, which reads in part: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.” Some immigration hardliners have argued that the 14th Amendment is not applicable to those not in the U.S. legally or here only on a temporary visa. Trump, who has long promised to end birthright citizenship, told Axios that instead of amending the Constitution, he has been advised that his administration could end the practice through executive order. [...]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Walt In Seattlle
2018-10-31 00:17:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The comments of the Los Angeles Times Editorial Board.......


http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-trump-terrorism-20181030-story.html
Walt In Seattlle
2018-11-01 08:44:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On whether (1) President Trump has authority to end birthright citizenship by executive order and (2) the meaning of key text in the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitutiion

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/30/662335612/legal-scholars-say-14th-amendment-doubt-trump-can-end-birthright-citizenship-wit





And this is a sign of what's to come.....

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article220928885.html

At what probably is to be a critical moment, it appears I must back away from further posts to USENET/Google Groups. My eyesight is failing and I presently have no adaptive solutions or knowledge as to how I can do what I've been doing online for years. So, this has to be the end, at least for now.

Ending now may be for the best. Writing about this and other topics might not be very effective, especially in USENET, if the goal is to make a difference. Now is the time to make a differnce if you can!

But beware! As long as President Trump is in office and despite current prosperity, we have a questionable future ahead. A battle for the soul of America is under way. I'm not sure we, as a nation, will survive President Trump and again be the nation of which most of us can be proud. That's all, and I'm done!!
Walt In Seattlle
2018-12-03 04:42:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/talk.politics.misc/v85Wiadsd2U
Loading...