Discussion:
Bridges, How Come?
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a425couple
2020-07-31 17:05:02 UTC
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So how come, in Alabama they built the Edmund Pettus Bridge
in 1940, and after 80 years it is still fine,
While in Seattle we built the West Seattle Bridge in
1984, and after 35 years it is broken and will be
unusable for years?

"On April 15, (2020) SDOT announced that the bridge will be closed
until at least 2022 because of more extensive damage found--.
On March 23, 2020, SDOT began a long-term closure of the bridge
for emergency repairs after cracks in the deck were discovered
during a routine inspection.[14] The girder wall cracks had grown
to 2 feet (0.61 m) within a month, while the hollow girder cracks
had been noticed during inspections."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Pettus_Bridge

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Seattle_Bridge
Walt In Seattle
2020-07-31 19:08:04 UTC
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Put the question to SDOT. But perhaps THEY don't even know.

There are tons of potential explanations -- geological differences that introduce different levels of stress on each bride, differences in type or quality of construction materials, tectonic events here that did not occur there, different types and levels of usage with varying load factors, differences in local weather and so on.

I grewup in Southwest Georgia where, of course, they don't have the earthquake activity we have here. Neither do they have the typical Northwest Fall and Winter wind storms. The terrain there is not nearly so vulnerable to land/mudslides as is evident here. Since Eastern Alabama/Western Georgia are in the deep South, freezing and thawing are not quite the issue they can be here. In other words: we have to worry about repairing expansion joints in our roads to a greater extent than is necessary in the Southeastern U.S. By the way: I lived in Southwest Georgia for 16 years before I saw anything more than a SLIGHT dusting of snow; never had enough to pack a decent snowball in all that time.
Post by a425couple
So how come, in Alabama they built the Edmund Pettus Bridge
in 1940, and after 80 years it is still fine,
While in Seattle we built the West Seattle Bridge in
1984, and after 35 years it is broken and will be
unusable for years?
"On April 15, (2020) SDOT announced that the bridge will be closed
until at least 2022 because of more extensive damage found--.
On March 23, 2020, SDOT began a long-term closure of the bridge
for emergency repairs after cracks in the deck were discovered
during a routine inspection.[14] The girder wall cracks had grown
to 2 feet (0.61 m) within a month, while the hollow girder cracks
had been noticed during inspections."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Pettus_Bridge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Seattle_Bridge
Al Czervik
2020-07-31 19:11:22 UTC
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Post by a425couple
So how come, in Alabama they built the Edmund Pettus Bridge
in 1940, and after 80 years it is still fine,
While in Seattle we built the West Seattle Bridge in
1984, and after 35 years it is broken and will be
unusable for years?
When you put it into context that the Democrats in Washington State are
planning that in 30 years there will be no need for personal
transportation it makes sense. No new roads. Don't repair roads. Pump
90% of licensing money and gas taxes into public transit for 1% that use
it regularly. Build a convention center over the freeway so it can never
be expanded...

Of course they've been working on this 30 year plan for 60 years when
they first saw the future: The Monorail.
Gronk
2020-08-02 04:18:23 UTC
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Post by Al Czervik
When you put it into context that the Democrats in Washington State are
planning that in 30 years there will be no need for personal
transportation it makes sense. No new roads. Don't repair roads. Pump 90%
Really? Or are you just making that up?
Baxter
2020-08-02 15:42:15 UTC
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Post by Gronk
Post by Al Czervik
When you put it into context that the Democrats in Washington State
are planning that in 30 years there will be no need for personal
transportation it makes sense. No new roads. Don't repair roads. Pump 90%
Really? Or are you just making that up?
wrongtards love Conspiracy Theories - the more implausible the more they
like them
Al Czervik
2020-08-03 16:31:25 UTC
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Post by Baxter
Post by Gronk
Post by Al Czervik
When you put it into context that the Democrats in Washington State
are planning that in 30 years there will be no need for personal
transportation it makes sense. No new roads. Don't repair roads. Pump 90%
Really? Or are you just making that up?
wrongtards love Conspiracy Theories - the more implausible the more they
like them
It's implausible that Democrats love mass transit? You and Biden have a
lot in common brain-wise. I hope you aren't as infatuated with the
strawberry essence in young girl's hair though.
Al Czervik
2020-08-03 16:33:46 UTC
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Post by Baxter
Post by Gronk
Post by Al Czervik
When you put it into context that the Democrats in Washington State
are planning that in 30 years there will be no need for personal
transportation it makes sense. No new roads. Don't repair roads. Pump 90%
Really? Or are you just making that up?
wrongtards love Conspiracy Theories - the more implausible the more they
like them
This bridge was union built - and it shows.
Al Czervik
2020-08-03 16:22:57 UTC
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Post by Gronk
Post by Al Czervik
When you put it into context that the Democrats in Washington State
are planning that in 30 years there will be no need for personal
transportation it makes sense. No new roads. Don't repair roads. Pump 90%
Really? Or are you just making that up?
It's true. The amount of new highway lanes is certainly not keeping up
with the population. 100% of our Sound Transit excise $3.1B is going
mass transit.
a425couple
2020-08-03 03:16:26 UTC
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Post by Al Czervik
Post by a425couple
So how come, in Alabama they built the Edmund Pettus Bridge
in 1940, and after 80 years it is still fine,
While in Seattle we built the West Seattle Bridge in
1984, and after 35 years it is broken and will be
unusable for years?
When you put it into context that the Democrats in Washington State are
planning that in 30 years there will be no need for personal
transportation it makes sense. No new roads. Don't repair roads. Pump
90% of licensing money and gas taxes into public transit for 1% that use
it regularly. Build a convention center over the freeway so it can never
be expanded...
Of course they've been working on this 30 year plan for 60 years when
they first saw the future: The Monorail.
Yes. I grew up out past Issaquah (back when it was a
hick lumber and mining town) and then kept working
there while I earned my way through college at Seattle Pacific
on the side of Queen Anne Hill. So I commuted back and forth
most weeks in the last half of the 1960s.

It amazes people when I tell them that each week my
commute got quicker! Yes, yes indeed. Because we were
building roads, freeways and bridges back then.

Nothing like that now.
Al Czervik
2020-08-03 16:43:40 UTC
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Post by Al Czervik
Post by a425couple
So how come, in Alabama they built the Edmund Pettus Bridge
in 1940, and after 80 years it is still fine,
While in Seattle we built the West Seattle Bridge in
1984, and after 35 years it is broken and will be
unusable for years?
When you put it into context that the Democrats in Washington State
are planning that in 30 years there will be no need for personal
transportation it makes sense. No new roads. Don't repair roads. Pump
90% of licensing money and gas taxes into public transit for 1% that
use it regularly. Build a convention center over the freeway so it can
never be expanded...
Of course they've been working on this 30 year plan for 60 years when
they first saw the future: The Monorail.
Yes.  I grew up out past Issaquah (back when it was a
hick lumber and mining town) and then kept working
there while I earned my way through college at Seattle Pacific
on the side of Queen Anne Hill.  So I commuted back and forth
most weeks in the last half of the 1960s.
It amazes people when I tell them that each week my
commute got quicker!  Yes, yes indeed.  Because we were
building roads, freeways and bridges back then.
Nothing like that now.
I think I90 was the last non-toll major project. They won't build
another freeway (I-605) until it's too late even though we're all going
to be riding in computer-driven solar powered electric cars that eat
carbon and produced sustainable tofu.

Gronk
2020-08-02 04:17:33 UTC
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Post by a425couple
So how come, in Alabama they built the Edmund Pettus Bridge
in 1940, and after 80 years it is still fine,
While in Seattle we built the West Seattle Bridge in
1984, and after 35 years it is broken and will be
unusable for years?
"On April 15, (2020) SDOT announced that the bridge will be closed
until at least 2022 because of more extensive damage found--.
On March 23, 2020, SDOT began a long-term closure of the bridge
for emergency repairs after cracks in the deck were discovered
during a routine inspection.[14] The girder wall cracks had grown
to 2 feet (0.61 m) within a month, while the hollow girder cracks
had been noticed during inspections."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Pettus_Bridge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Seattle_Bridge
One is a small bridge, the other is MUCH bigger and gets more traffic and
use???
a425couple
2020-08-02 22:24:58 UTC
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Post by Gronk
Post by a425couple
So how come, in Alabama they built the Edmund Pettus Bridge
in 1940, and after 80 years it is still fine,
While in Seattle we built the West Seattle Bridge in
1984, and after 35 years it is broken and will be
unusable for years?
"On April 15, (2020) SDOT announced that the bridge will be closed
until at least 2022 because of more extensive damage found--.
On March 23, 2020, SDOT began a long-term closure of the bridge
for emergency repairs after cracks in the deck were discovered
during a routine inspection.[14] The girder wall cracks had grown
to 2 feet (0.61 m) within a month, while the hollow girder cracks
had been noticed during inspections."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Pettus_Bridge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Seattle_Bridge
One is a small bridge, the other is MUCH bigger and gets more traffic
and use???
Gronk's opinion is bigger bridges should have
short lives. Got it!
a425couple
2020-08-02 23:57:24 UTC
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Post by a425couple
Post by Gronk
Post by a425couple
So how come, in Alabama they built the Edmund Pettus Bridge
in 1940, and after 80 years it is still fine,
While in Seattle we built the West Seattle Bridge in
1984, and after 35 years it is broken and will be
unusable for years?
"On April 15, (2020) SDOT announced that the bridge will be closed
until at least 2022 because of more extensive damage found--.
On March 23, 2020, SDOT began a long-term closure of the bridge
for emergency repairs after cracks in the deck were discovered
during a routine inspection.[14] The girder wall cracks had grown
to 2 feet (0.61 m) within a month, while the hollow girder cracks
had been noticed during inspections."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Pettus_Bridge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Seattle_Bridge
One is a small bridge, the other is MUCH bigger and gets more traffic
and use???
Gronk's opinion is bigger bridges should have
short lives.  Got it!
Thank goodness, back in the 1960s we had some quality engineers
and builders, that designed things better than 'Gronk'
appreciates.

The I-5 Ship Canal Bridge is big and still fine
at 60 years.
"It is 4,429 ft (1,350 meters) long, stands 182 feet above the canal
and is 119 feet wide at the upper deck. It was the largest bridge of its
kind in the Northwest when it first opened--"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_Canal_Bridge#:~:text=The%20Ship%20Canal%20Bridge%20is,Hill%20and%20the%20University%20District.&text=It%20was%20the%20largest%20bridge,Northwest%20when%20it%20first%20opened.
Al Czervik
2020-08-03 16:33:01 UTC
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Post by Gronk
Post by a425couple
So how come, in Alabama they built the Edmund Pettus Bridge
in 1940, and after 80 years it is still fine,
While in Seattle we built the West Seattle Bridge in
1984, and after 35 years it is broken and will be
unusable for years?
"On April 15, (2020) SDOT announced that the bridge will be closed
until at least 2022 because of more extensive damage found--.
On March 23, 2020, SDOT began a long-term closure of the bridge
for emergency repairs after cracks in the deck were discovered
during a routine inspection.[14] The girder wall cracks had grown
to 2 feet (0.61 m) within a month, while the hollow girder cracks
had been noticed during inspections."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Pettus_Bridge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Seattle_Bridge
One is a small bridge, the other is MUCH bigger and gets more traffic
and use???
One could of had the benefit of 50 years in improved technology.
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